Right now all my BTC is tied up in Setts. I want to provide Digg liquidity when it comes out, but facing a 0.5% withdrawal fee just so I can provide Digg liquidity isn’t appealing. I’ll probably just leave it in the current setts. I’ve been liquidity mining since the start on Dec 3. Would be nice if I can withdraw with no fee so I can support Digg and continue to support new products.
Is dev team considering this?
There is no official confirmation that fee will apply to DIGG setts, but even if they do I don’t think 0.5% fee on withdrawals is a big deal. If you are making multiples of the 0.5% in profits from setts then why not? Besides the fee goes to the Dao’s treasury and one way or another it will find its way back to creating value for Badger holders. Finally it is important that the Dao continue to generate profits.
Digg liquidity is more important than Badger liquidity imo. If people are hesitant to provide Digg liquidity because they’ll incur additional fees in order to do so, we should look to solve that.
There is no withdrawal fee on the uniswap LP setts or the badger only staking. If you pull your money out of the BTC sets after 4-6 weeks in, you’re earnings on badger WAY more than make up for the 0.5% fee.
The withdrawal fee’s only really hurt people who go in and out of the curve pools quickly. As a result of it, BadgerDAO already has a >$1million in collected fees that we can use. I’m 100% in support of leaving this there, at least as long as we’re offering APY’s of over 12% on the setts. This offers about a 2 week break even time.
Pulling out of bbadger or the badger/btc LP’s costs nothing nor should it ever. Pulling out of DIGG LP should also cost nothing. I’d support a withdrawal fee of 0.5 or even 1% on bDIGG (as we’re not getting LP value and the main reason we’d be paying rewards to this set is for lock-in.)
There are 3 DIGG pools
Digg Sett – Stake Digg and compound your rewards
Digg/wBTC Uni LP – Add liquidity to the Digg/wBTC pair on Uniswap
Digg/wBTC Sushi LP – Add liquidity to the Digg/wBTC pair on Sushiswap
I’d like to provide liquidity to all 3. I’d also like to maintain my Badger LP. So in order to provide liquidity to Digg/wBTC I require WBTC. To get WBTC I’ll need to withdraw from either the Supersett, renBTC or sBTC setts and convert to WBTC.
What I’m saying is I’m more hesitant to withdraw from one of those setts in order to provide liquidity to DIGG, if I need to pay a fee in order to do so. Yes, I’ve been in the sett for 5-6 weeks and I understand I’ve made much more than the withdraw fee in rewards, but it’s still added friction and a cost I’ll have to incur.
Seriously considering not providing liquidity for Digg if I need to pay this fee in order to so.
So I suggest either:
a) a moratorium on withdraw fees for 1 week at Digg launch, or
b) removing withdraw fees for anyone who has been in Setts for over 4 weeks
But the 0.5% withdraw fee after making 15% in badger emissions in order to make another 200% in DIGG emissions shouldn’t be a big deal. Can you explain your thinking in a way that shows its rational from a markets sense? This seems more like emotion than hard reason to me, and I don’t think most people will behave like this.
Maybe once CLAW comes out you can borrow USD stable against your deposits in the BTC pool and use it to buy more BTC to invest in the DIGG LP pools.
You could stick your digg in the bDIGG pool for now and use the debt/leverage to move into the LP’s once it’s available.
Why provide liquidity to digg at a cost when I can just continue staking on badger for free?
Because the APY’s will be much higher on Digg. You’re not paying a cost to enter DIGG. You’re paying a cost to pull your bitcoin out of the protocol after making a ton of money off it. I thik we should make the withdraw fee perminant. The only reason it could be seen as a cost right now is that it may go away in week 9. Once it’s there forever, you’ll have to pay it some day anyway.
One might think that a deposit fee represents this better, but then one misses out on earnings on the fee, whereas with a withdraw fee you get all your capital working for you the entire time you are staked.
Is this your view so that 0.5% can enrich the DAO or do you see it having some sort of preventative dynamic?
Personally, I’d prefer to pull out 100 renBTC to convert to wbtc to add to digg liquidity without having to pay $16,000 in withdraw fee. I’m probably already going to face additional fees to convert renbtc to wbtc.
It is my view that the withdraw fee can both enrich the DAO and encourage long-termism.
I hadn’t thought about your use-case. We certainly don’t want to penalise long-term users for supporting our new token. Even though the fees you will pay are more than made up for by your badger emissions, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth and you my friend should get it all.
What do you think about pausing the withdraw fee for 1 week (starting at the same time as DIGG launch) to give people time to reorganize? I would support that BIP if the Dev’s said it was easy, it would need a lot less justification/modelling and it’s not permanently removing what is currently our main revenue stream.
Yes, that’s what I suggested here. I agree the withdraw fee is good in general and shouldn’t be permanently removed, but turned off for a week could make sense in this instance.
Base it on stake days. >=7 days, no fee.
If you turn it off entirely, it’ll cause more havoc, won’t it?
Ok. So if you want to make this actually happen. Someone should DM dapp-whisperer or drop something in the development channel on discord and get a sense of technical feasibility and then write it up as a well structured BIP that follows the rules, kind of like the ones from Mr. Po.
If we can get that up, get enough interest to get 50-100 votes and bring it to snapshot before digg launch I’d be in 100% support. I don’t want to put the energy into writing up the BIP right now though, as I plan to keep my crv:btc staked and will use btc from other sources to LP digg.
After thinking about this, I don’t want to give up my multiplier, been staking since Day 1, so will need to find additional BTC elsewhere for Digg Liquidity Mining.
“Our intention is to remove the withdrawal fee after the LM event and potentially waive the fee for any Sett users that deposit for 4+ weeks.” - Discord
Some people like joined with the understanding (mentioned above) that the fee would be removed after the initial period because of what was said. I think a lot of people would appreciate it, if badger was able to make good on what they state.
For those stating that you made more in badger than the fees, that’s not how the world works. If i put truck tires on your car, and tell you to drive off because they are better than car tires. No way Jose. That’s not what I ordered. Please redo according to specs.
Some people like me, joined a little bit late, and with the withdrawal fee it will actually make us negative and better off not having provided any liquidity at all.
Can someone put this as a BIP so we can vote on this?
TBH this should be revisited again.
I dont like the idea of losing 0.5% my collateral even though i gain more on rewards.
The physiological effects of losing something you have in the first place is much stronger even though it might be a small amount ( 0.5%)
we should follow Yearn V2 of removing it completely and implement a revenue/management fee to BADGER stakeholders.